John Lennon, and those who.. well, you get the idea.

[meesterperfect]

There's a difference between someone and his works. We have to learn to differentiate between the two if we are to be objective critics. Was his music good? I think so. Was he an example of a perfect person? Not so much. There are countless examples throughout history of people who should be admired for something, but despised for something else. Richard Wagner revolutionized opera in almost every possible way: from composition, to production, to the very architecture of the building where it is performed. He was also a bigot and a misogynist asshole. Even the most notorious figure of the 20th century, Adolf Hitler, can be admired for his skill as an orator.

One thing I've learned through my job is that I should always make a distinction between the person and his works. There are people who write great music, but are complete and insufferable assholes as people, and there are people whose music I can't stand but who are great people. The best example I can think of is Billy Corgan. As a kid I virtually idolized the Smashing Pumpkins, so 5 years ago I was delighted to hear that we were gonna haver them at the Fillmore for 3 weeks. What a letdown it was for me when I saw for myself that this guy whose music had spoken to me so deeply for so long was a completely narcissistic and insufferable prick with an ego bigger than any I've seen in my life. I still love Smashing Pumpkins' music, but I can't stand Billy Corgan.

I didn't know you liked the pumpkins that much GSB. Nice to hear.
have you heard all the demo stuff from SD, MCIS, Airplane flies high, Adore and Machinas?
really really good stuff.
you kind of burst my bubble.I thought from many videos I've seen of Corgan that he was pretty much just a regular guy.
he's really that bad? I'd love to hear more of the story.
and in keeping it on topic with politics I just found this.

 

[meesterperfect]

Fank Zappa's bad experience with the gruesome twosome.
Lennon ripped him off.

 

[SabrinaDeep]

One thing I've learned through my job is that I should always make a distinction between the person and his works. There are people who write great music, but are complete and insufferable assholes as people, and there are people whose music I can't stand but who are great people. The best example I can think of is Billy Corgan. As a kid I virtually idolized the Smashing Pumpkins, so 5 years ago I was delighted to hear that we were gonna haver them at the Fillmore for 3 weeks. What a letdown it was for me when I saw for myself that this guy whose music had spoken to me so deeply for so long was a completely narcissistic and insufferable prick with an ego bigger than any I've seen in my life. I still love Smashing Pumpkins' music, but I can't stand Billy Corgan.

William is one of the best and most generous persons i know. As a musician his ego is big and it couldn't be different, given his talent. As an individual, the Corgan you have described above is not the one i know. Somehow this reinforces your post, though, because you probably met the musician Billy and not the man William. Galapogos.

 

[feller469]

So Sam, is there a post about Arnold Schwarzenegger coming soon? Many people looked up to him for his body-building, "acting," and political careers. Or, because he is a Republican, you won't bother to bring up he used steroids, cheated on his wife many, many times, and is a guy who needs the spotlight more than he is worthy of being in it?

 

[SabrinaDeep]

So Sam, is there a post about Arnold Schwarzenegger coming soon? Many people looked up to him for his body-building, "acting," and political careers. Or, because he is a Republican, you won't bother to bring up he used steroids, cheated on his wife many, many times, and is a guy who needs the spotlight more than he is worthy of being in it?

Did he got shot? So, nope, no incoming love for Schwarzy eheheh

 

[Johan]

Same goes for Lance Armstrong : As a cyclist, he was a HUGE fraud, maybe the biggest fraud in sport's history. But, besides that, he brought hope for many people fighting against Cancer and his foundation, Livestrong, raises millions of $ for that cause.

 

[vodkazvictim]

I checked the list and didn't find: Racist, Semi-Literate, Biker Asshole Who Lies About Military Service and Craves Attention Like A 14 Year Old Cheerleader.......... so I'm still OK with him. :thumbsup:

:iloveyou:

 

[Sam Fisher]

clint eastwood beat his girlfriends and wives and forced his mistresses to get abortions

Where is the FO's member who has a Clint Eastwood avi?

So Sam, is there a post about Arnold Schwarzenegger coming soon? Many people looked up to him for his body-building, "acting," and political careers. Or, because he is a Republican, you won't bother to bring up he used steroids, cheated on his wife many, many times, and is a guy who needs the spotlight more than he is worthy of being in it?

Who in here uses a Schwarzenegger avi? However, there is one certain individual who uses Lennon's photo for his avi.

And don't forget, I was damn near crucified for using Al Jolson's photo for my avi.

 

[Terry Sleeper]

"All You Need Is Love" . . . but:
All You Want Is Sex . . . . and:
All You Get Is Porn!

 

[Sam Fisher]

John Lennon was a douche

I checked the list and didn't find: Racist, Semi-Literate, Biker Asshole Who Lies About Military Service and Craves Attention Like A 14 Year Old Cheerleader.......... so I'm still OK with him. :thumbsup:

But surely you found these:

- Lennon was a perfect example of someone who lived by the hypocritical dictum of “do as I say, not as I do.” As his critics sometimes point out, all you have to do is go straight to his songs.

- The man who sang “imagine no possessions” lived a millionaire’s life in a posh New York hotel.

- The man who sang “imagine no religion” was obsessed with every spiritual and New Age fad that came his way, including Hindu meditation, the I-Ching, and astrology of all kinds.

- The man who sang “all you need is love” was a bitter, violent, and angry man who abused his family and friends.

- The man who praised having “nothing to kill or die for” helped finance and publicize radical groups who extolled the use of violence.

Quite literally everything his fans see personified in the icon of John Lennon are ideals the man himself either couldn’t or wouldn’t live up to.

 

[Mayhem]

But surely you found these:

- Lennon was a perfect example of someone who lived by the hypocritical dictum of “do as I say, not as I do.” As his critics sometimes point out, all you have to do is go straight to his songs.

- The man who sang “imagine no possessions” lived a millionaire’s life in a posh New York hotel.

- The man who sang “imagine no religion” was obsessed with every spiritual and New Age fad that came his way, including Hindu meditation, the I-Ching, and astrology of all kinds.

- The man who sang “all you need is love” was a bitter, violent, and angry man who abused his family and friends.

- The man who praised having “nothing to kill or die for” helped finance and publicize radical groups who extolled the use of violence.

Quite literally everything his fans see personified in the icon of John Lennon are ideals the man himself either couldn’t or wouldn’t live up to.

Yeah, and who the fuck cares? The man has been dead for a couple decades.

And again, you just insist on showing what an ignorant douche that you insist on being. Tell me hillbilly, what does the word "Imagine" mean. Go look it up. He was not necessarily stating that this is how the world should be, he said imagine what it might be like if it was. "Imagine no possessions". He was smart enough to know that's bullshit. But take a moment from the world as it is and "imagine" what it might be like.

Seriously, the things you need explained to you, in the simplest way possible, is absolutely stunning. You know jack shit about art.

 

[Ravenholm]

As for him being average on the musical instrument side of things. You can say the same for everyone of The Beatles in that aspect and none more so than Ringo. He was no Dave Lombardo or Vinnie Paul or Vinnie Appice. Hell I could name like 50 or more Metal musicians that piss all over every Beatle in terms of raw talent on the instrument playing field.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

As for him being average on the musical instrument side of things. You can say the same for everyone of The Beatles in that aspect and none more so than Ringo. He was no Dave Lombardo or Vinnie Paul or Vinnie Appice. Hell I could name like 50 or more Metal musicians that piss all over every Beatle in terms of raw talent on the instrument playing field.

Kind of a mute point, isn't it? Every musician has their strengths and weaknesses. I agree there are way better musicians than the Beatles but try to say there is one metal musician with the charisma of any of the Beatles and I'll end up laughing. In the case of Lennon, he was probably the best lyricist of all time and managed to create a whole love and peace persona through it. There isn't much more to him than that.

 

[Sam Fisher]

There isn't much more to him than that.

But, in all honesty there is more to him....

- Lennon was a perfect example of someone who lived by the hypocritical dictum of “do as I say, not as I do.” As his critics sometimes point out, all you have to do is go straight to his songs.

- The man who sang “imagine no possessions” lived a millionaire’s life in a posh New York hotel.

- The man who sang “imagine no religion” was obsessed with every spiritual and New Age fad that came his way, including Hindu meditation, the I-Ching, and astrology of all kinds.

- The man who sang “all you need is love” was a bitter, violent, and angry man who abused his family and friends.

- The man who praised having “nothing to kill or die for” helped finance and publicize radical groups who extolled the use of violence.

Quite literally everything his fans see personified in the icon of John Lennon are ideals the man himself either couldn’t or wouldn’t live up to.

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

But, in all honesty there is more to him....

You already posted that. Quit being as big of a wanker as Paul and sod off.

 

[Sam Fisher]

You already posted that. Quit being as big of a wanker as Paul and sod off.

Jeez, you Canucks are an angry lot. :dunno:

 

[Ravenholm]

Kind of a mute point, isn't it? Every musician has their strengths and weaknesses. I agree there are way better musicians than the Beatles but try to say there is one metal musician with the charisma of any of the Beatles and I'll end up laughing. In the case of Lennon, he was probably the best lyricist of all time and managed to create a whole love and peace persona through it. There isn't much more to him than that.

If you want charisma then be a quiz show host. Hey maybe that's what those insects (Beatles) should have been since the start. Quiz show hosts. Since they have more charisma than talent *cue Woody Woodpecker laugh*

 

[PlasmaTwa2]

If you want Charisma then be a quiz show host. Hey maybe that's what those insects (Beatles) should have been since the start. Quiz show hosts. Since they have more Charisma than talent *cue Woody Woodpecker laugh*

By that logic, metal lyricists should have just stayed in their rooms writing letters to their parents on how they hate them and the world, right?

 

[Sam Fisher]

By that logic, metal lyricists should have just stayed in their rooms writing letters to their parents on how they hate them and the world, right?

Yes.

 

[Ravenholm]

Yes.

No.